“Socio-cultural spaces are a safe haven for democrats”

Juliette Holtz: The town of Weißwasser is located in north-eastern Saxony, in Upper Lusatia. It was once one of the most important centres of the European glass industry, producing everything from sturdy window panes to fine crystal glass. That industrial heritage is still visible today. At the same time, the town is undergoing profound structural change. Over the past twenty-five years, Weißwasser has lost more than half of its population. Entire residential areas have been demolished, and some sites have been returned to forest. This podcast is part of the VOICES project. I’m Juliette, a student at the University of Greifswald, and I’m talking to people from Weißwasser about the town’s past, its transformation and its prospects for the future. What does it mean when a region is undergoing change? Which places provide stability and open up new perspectives? I’ll begin by speaking with Patrick Pirl from the TELUX socio-cultural centre, who will introduce himself in just a moment.

Patrick Pirl: I’m Patrick Pirl. I work for Mobile Jugendarbeit und Soziokultur e.V., the association that runs the TELUX socio-cultural centre here in Weißwasser. I grew up in Lusatia, in Bad Muskau – about two towns away – where I finished school. I then did my community service here in the region before going on to university, not too far away. I first studied at BTU Cottbus, where I completed my bachelor’s degree, and then moved to Dresden for my master’s, living and working there for a few years. But at some point I felt a strong pull to come back – to leave the city, to leave Dresden, and return to the woods, the greenery, the lakes, the more barren landscapes, and fewer people. Since 2019, I’ve been working here at SKZ TELUX in the culture and events department, and it’s something I find deeply fulfilling and really enjoy. Quite simply because you realise how great the need is here for cultural activities, events and opportunities for participation, and I’m very happy to be involved.

Juliette Holtz: TELUX is located in a former glassworks building. Does that create a connection for you? Is there a particular feeling to working in a place that was once so closely tied to the glass industry – and therefore to the identity of Weißwasser?

Patrick Pirl: That connection actually developed more through my work and my professional life here. As I said, I grew up in Bad Muskau, and I would say that my emotional connection to places from my youth is stronger there than here in Weißwasser. I did go to school here, but my deepest emotional ties are to my hometown. That said, there are still several points of connection here. For example, my father worked on this site for a few years. Even before SKZ TELUX was located here, we took part in events on the premises and attended various activities here. As a glassworks, the site experienced a clear decline from the early 1990s onwards. Large parts of the building stood empty for many years and were only used temporarily. For instance, our sponsoring association organised a Christmas walking event here every year, which was called “Crossing Christmas” at the time and is now known as “Christmas City”; it has since taken place here twice on the site. When my partner and I returned to Lusatia in 2017, the SKZ TELUX project was launched here, I believe in September or October of that year, and that became another very important point of contact for us as returnees. One of our main concerns when leaving Dresden was that we would return home knowing that a great deal had declined, that many of the youth clubs we used to go to no longer existed. So it was incredibly reassuring to know that there was a place here where culture happens, where you are certain to meet like-minded people or others with similar interests. Through our return, it really did develop into an exciting place again. When I joined the association as an employee in 2019, it was fascinating to experience everything from a different perspective. I learned a great deal about this site, about the former glassworks, and about how important it was to the people here and how strongly it shaped their identity. Before reunification, around two to three thousand people worked here in various trades. You can sense that when former employees return to TELUX for an event or another occasion, they have mixed feelings. There is, of course, a strong sense of nostalgia, because a large and significant part of their working lives took place here, and naturally their hearts are still attached to it. At the same time, people are very grateful and often express how important it is to them that these parts of the building are no longer simply left to decay, but are being filled with new life, revitalised, and made meaningful again. That is something people really value, and it was also very moving and exciting for me to witness.

Juliette Holtz: How would you describe the situation in Weißwasser today? What factors encourage young people to stay, and what reasons lead many of them to leave?

Patrick Pirl: I think the desire to move away is still relatively strong. There are no opportunities for higher education here beyond secondary school; the nearest universities are in Görlitz and Cottbus. As a result, a large proportion of young people who decide after finishing school that they want to pursue a degree usually leave the town. At the same time, there are still comparatively strong employers in Weißwasser, particularly in the skilled trades, such as LEAG or the glass manufacturer Stölzle, which offer stable and attractive jobs. For some young people, this is an important factor that encourages them to stay. Nevertheless, I would estimate that around 70 to 80 percent leave the town for university or vocational training. This makes it all the more important to have places like cultural centres. I have experienced first-hand how crucial it is to have spaces where people can pursue their cultural interests and actively participate. These places offer a strong sense of self-efficacy for those who get involved and help foster identification with the town and the region. Such experiences can carry over into later life, influencing career decisions and increasing the likelihood that people will return – or choose not to leave in the first place. For that reason, I believe places like this are extremely important.

Juliette Holtz: What kinds of activities are particularly popular among young people at the moment? And where do you see gaps — what is missing, or what additional opportunities and spaces are still needed?

Patrick Pirl: What tends to work particularly well – and is widely accepted – are low-threshold party formats. You put a DJ in a room, create a theme, and that alone often meets a strong need: getting away from everyday life and immersing yourself in an experience-oriented party culture. In my view, it doesn’t take many resources to achieve a big impact in this area. Other formats that used to be very important to me personally, such as live music, have declined significantly – at least here. There is relatively little demand for them. Even active engagement with music, such as making music yourself, is something only a small proportion of young people are involved in. That said, these groups still need to be addressed and supported. In other areas – poetry, literature, and working with one’s own texts – we are involved in projects such as the one led by Jessy James LaFleur, who founded the Spoken Word Academy. He works specifically with young people in Lusatia, encouraging them to find their own voice and express it through words and texts. Our association, as the name Mobile Jugendarbeit und Soziokultur e.V. suggests, is built on two pillars: youth work on the one hand and socio-cultural work on the other. In the field of youth work, we have colleagues who work with different target groups and are able to pick up on young people’s interests and translate them into concrete projects. One example is the creation of a space where young people who enjoy skating can build their own ramps themselves. This often feeds into other areas of our work. In our makerspace, for instance, with 3D printers, CNC milling machines and similar tools, young people can directly test ideas and put them into practice. I think this principle is crucial, regardless of the topic: identifying needs, creating opportunities to act on them, and enabling people to experience tangible results from their own efforts. That sense of self-efficacy is a key lever in our work..

Juliette Holtz: Would you say that the city’s glassmaking history still plays a role for younger people today, even though they didn’t experience that period themselves? Or is it more the case that this history exists mainly through stories told by parents or grandparents and is no longer really present in their everyday lives?

Patrick Pirl: To be honest, I don’t think it really matters much anymore. We notice this in the public discourse in the city as well. The city is still trying to keep the label of a “glassmaking town” alive, something we also try to do, of course, since we are based on this historic and important site and many people here come from the former glass industry. But my sense is that this topic no longer really resonates with young people. You have the major employer I mentioned, Stölzle, which is keen to attract young talent, but institutions like the glass museum really need to work hard to engage young people and ensure they come through to help preserve this heritage. And I think there are quite significant gaps and challenges in that regard. As a result, awareness and understanding of this history is probably fading bit by bit with each generation.

Juliette Holtz: What I’ve also come across in the course of my research is, of course, the question of what will happen in the future and how TELUX will be funded in concrete terms.

Patrick Pirl: With the assurance that we would be secure until 2026, we were able to work well for the time being. At the end of November last year, I believe, various measures were taken at city council level to question aspects of our funding, among other things, and this dragged on throughout this year until the city council meeting at the end of June. That’s when we really began to feel how exhausting it had been. On top of the issues arising from these discussions and disputes, we hardly had any time for our regular work. We are institutionally funded by the Kulturraum Oberlausitz and are therefore expected to provide a broad range of events and participation formats. Balancing the demands from the city council, engaging with the public, and taking both strategic and tactical approaches was simply draining, because every area of work – and even our free time – was dominated by these concerns. It was difficult to switch off, and there remained a constant uncertainty over whether our funding would be approved, whether we would have security, or whether the project might have to be terminated. When it became clear at the end of June that we were secure for this year and the next, it was a huge weight off our minds and allowed us to regain some emotional stability, refocusing on the aspects of our work that we actually enjoy and find meaningful for the city, the region, and the people here. But slowly, the question of what will happen next year is already looming, and we are looking at ways to accommodate the city’s position further. In other words, we continue to fulfil our tasks despite the city’s tight financial situation, which has often been used as a reason to cut funding, partly to support them and partly to defuse arguments from others. We hope this puts us in a better position next year, and as always, we remain optimistic that a good agreement for 2027 will allow us to continue our work. I simply wish for a degree of foresight and recognition of how important such projects are. If you’ve experienced first-hand how vital such spaces can be in creating opportunities to stay or return, then their importance becomes obvious. I believe this applies not only to young people but also to those who have stayed here or might want to come back, because such places contribute to a certain quality of life. We face difficulties attracting doctors, well-trained specialists, and if cultural factors are overlooked – though less tangible in financial terms – they are nevertheless crucial and should be supported appropriately. From my own professional perspective, it has always been something of a dream to work in the cultural and events sector. To be honest, I actually studied business administration, which was a very pragmatic choice. I didn’t have a particular plan and no minimum grades were required, so I just went with it. But when I finished my studies, I asked myself what I really wanted to do. The experiences I had through assistant and student jobs didn’t feel like the right fit, and when I looked inside myself, I realised that culture and events were what I was truly drawn to. It was only when I returned to Lusatia that this desire began to take shape. If you wanted to do something yourself or contribute ideas, you quickly met people who pointed you in the right direction or said, “Hey, there’s a role here,” and almost magically that led to meaningful work. That’s how I found my way into the cultural sector, and what I once thought would be cool became a reality here at home, where there was an actual need for it.

Juliette Holtz: It has already been mentioned how important it is to involve young people in decisions about the future. Are there any other good examples beyond TELUX, or would you say that TELUX remains the most important reference point?

Patrick Pirl: It all began when all independent youth welfare organisations in the city faced funding cuts. At the end of November, I believe it was at the request of the AfD faction, or at least a majority of AfD councillors along with two other groups on the city council, the funds for all independent youth and social welfare organisations here were retroactively cut by 30 per cent – just one month before the end of the year. That was only a first shot across the bow, and perhaps also a signal of the direction things might take in the future. We’ll have to see how it develops, whether the other providers will be able to withstand it or whether one or two projects will be sacrificed. One thing is clear: the city has shrunk massively, and it’s no coincidence that other cultural venues have disappeared over the years. At the end of the 1980s, the population was just under 40,000; now it’s around 15,000. That naturally changes the city’s needs, and in the end, you have to consider how a city with relatively limited or dwindling resources can afford to maintain certain services. I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes, but I often feel that these discussions are framed purely in financial terms, when in reality they are often ideological debates that aren’t necessarily based on the facts.

Juliette Holtz: How has the mood among young people changed in recent years? Would you say there is more optimism, or is there a sense of frustration – a feeling of hope, or perhaps the opposite?

Patrick Pirl: It’s very different, I would say. We’ve had projects here with young people in their final years at school, Year 11 and 12, who were already eager to leave, to go somewhere else and experience something different. These were young people who, if you like, were perhaps a bit more reflective or interested in political issues and worldviews at that stage. The young people who stay here, I think, tend to be more pragmatic. They look for an apprenticeship in a craft business or at LEAG, where the pay is good, and then they settle into it. When it comes to structural change, I would have liked to see a more vibrant future for this place, where people could experiment, small projects could be supported, and those with bold or unconventional ideas could try them out. Of course, infrastructure and large employers are important, and having infrastructure to attract them is crucial. But realistically, I think the region is more likely to shrink further if it doesn’t succeed in shifting how coal revenues are used and making it attractive for at least one or two employers. The idea of a “test lab” for innovation is perhaps too utopian; a more pragmatic approach might be to attract a small number of employers who can also encourage people to move here or stay.

Juliette Holtz: I spoke with Patrick Pirl from the TELUX socio-cultural centre about how important this work is for the local people, how it helps shape their identity, but also about the uncertainties that come with funding and why he sees places like Weißwasser as experimental laboratories for new ideas. To put these perspectives into context and shed light on the wider framework of structural change, I will be speaking next with social scientist Franziska Stölzel.

Franziska Stölzel: My name is Franziska Stölzel. I am a social scientist, specialising primarily in social change and transformation processes, particularly in relation to the phase-out of coal. I live in Weißwasser and grew up in the region. My grandmother has what is, so to speak, my favourite place in the entire world in Weißwasser: her garden. I spent a lot of time there as a child, and it represents, for me, a connection to home, security, freedom, and childhood.

Juliette Holtz: What does industrial change mean for the city today?

Franziska Stölzel: For Weißwasser, industrial change above all means change, because neither the coal industry nor glass production – which has declined significantly over the past 30 years – has provided many jobs or opportunities for self-efficacy through work and production. Naturally, this has had a big impact on people. It always does when jobs disappear, and it also affects a workforce whose identity has long been shaped by work. But we are all working to address this, to redefine processes and projects, and that takes time. That’s why our focus is not only on developing new and more sustainable perspectives for traditional economic sectors, but also on promoting personal development, even if, at times, that simply means learning to practice patience.

Juliette Holtz: We heard earlier how important youth work is. From your research, how important would you say socio-cultural offerings – like those at SKZ TELUX – are for the stability of a town like Weißwasser, which is undergoing change?

Franziska Stölzel: The important thing about these socio-cultural spaces is that they bring people together to create things collectively. These spaces are often referred to as “bubbles,” but the groups within them also have a clear purpose: to support one another, share new ideas, and create something new. Within what many would describe as a “left-green” ideology, or what others might call a democratic process, these groups stand united against anti-democratic and hostile forces. This is particularly evident because such spaces are under extreme pressure from right-wing populists and nationalist ideologues. On one hand, this naturally strengthens the spaces, but it is also exhausting for the people who constantly have to reinvent themselves to prove their legitimacy. Socio-cultural spaces have taken on a whole new meaning in times of extreme polarisation: they are a safe haven for democrats and have a mission to raise awareness of the situation, especially among children and young people. These centres are places of education and self-efficacy. They operate in an extremely grassroots, democratic way, which often requires a great deal of patience. But that’s the point: enduring democratic processes, being asked about your own ideas and values, and putting them into practice – especially for young people.

Juliette Holtz: And then there’s always the issue of money distribution, and TELUX’s funding is only guaranteed until 2026. How do you experience the tension between the financial resources provided by the federal government for structural change and the actual needs on the ground?

Franziska Stölzel: These federal funds for structural change and the planned phase-out of coal are extremely important, above all because they show that Lusatia and other coal-mining regions don’t have to go through this process alone, and that no one should be left behind. On the other hand, the way funds are distributed at the local level has been very unfair and unsustainable. The core regions, as we call them here in Lusatia – those that stand to lose the most from the coal phase-out – still receive very little compared to other areas. This includes Weißwasser, and also what I would call the socio-cultural educational mandate: social issues, culture, and education. All three of these areas receive very little support from these funds. Partly, of course, this is because the funds are primarily intended to create new jobs or preserve industrial employment, which has little or nothing to do with socio-cultural education. But soft location factors should also be considered. Over the last five years, we have made serious mistakes in this regard, which are only now being addressed. The problem is compounded by the fact that the local authorities, who are the main applicants, are extremely underfunded, not just in the Görlitz and Bautzen districts, but across Germany. Many local authorities struggle, or even fail, to finance their mandatory tasks, which means anything requiring additional funding falls by the wayside. Even a five, ten, or less than ten per cent contribution to these coal projects can amount to millions of euros, which local authorities simply don’t have at their disposal. This is extremely frustrating, both for local residents and for those who supported the coal compromise six years ago. While a socio-cultural centre has already benefited from these funds, the centre is under constant threat from mainly right-wing and conservative forces in the city council, meaning it cannot be assumed that further projects can be implemented. If the main venue is undermined, there will be no space, no room, and no resources for anything else. This is not only a problem for those who work there or seek support, but also for the many volunteers active across Weißwasser, not just in the socio-cultural centre. If we don’t establish a democratically supported basic security in municipalities, even coal money won’t be enough.

Juliette Holtz: But is there anything other cities can learn from Weißwasser’s experiences?

Franziska Stölzel: In fact, many different actors come from all over the world – Korea, Japan, Australia, Colombia, Africa, the Americas –representing a wide range of administrative and educational backgrounds, and they come to Weißwasser or Lusatia to see how we do things, or how we have managed to achieve certain successes. That’s always very interesting, because if so many people come and ask, “Show us how you do it,” we must be doing something right. Much of it, of course, is based on collaborative work among different stakeholders: local representatives, volunteers, scientists, active citizens, and of course people who genuinely want to make a difference. Anyone can complain and say everything is stupid, but if you don’t get involved, nothing happens. It’s really the people on the ground – those who show up on a Saturday morning, even on their day off, or in the evening after a long day at work – who sit in a group, brainstorm, and actually put into practice their ideas for a liveable community. In the end, these are the people who, through their own achievements, can say they are happy in the region, that they have realised their potential, that they feel comfortable, and that they are proud of what they have done. They have also, in a sense, returned to the “bubble” – a community where they can create spaces together. And I think that means a great deal; it matters a lot to the people themselves.

Juliette Holtz: Let’s turn back to the media for a moment. There’s always a lot of reporting – sometimes not explicitly negative, but still framing things as problems or challenges. It tends to focus less on opportunities and more on risks, on all the “construction sites,” so to speak. What’s your perception of this?

Franziska Stölzel: When we receive requests from the media, it’s usually to show how we manage to survive in a region like Lusatia, as if we were, so to speak, occupying the last legal vacuum. On one hand, that’s true, but on the other, it isn’t. Of course, the media reports negatively on the East, and yes, we have extreme, genuinely serious problems that we cannot deny. But we are also part of a progressive civil society, a creative and active community that comes together in many different ways to make the best of a seemingly hopeless situation. Personally, I feel this side of the story is not discussed enough. Naturally, there are people in the region who polarise opinion and attract attention not only in Germany, but across Europe and globally. That’s why I think it’s all the more important to focus on people like the actors at the socio-cultural centre: those who dare to speak out at local demonstrations, who were previously called upon to boycott, who bring people together to take a stand against right-wing extremism, xenophobia, and for democracy, participation, and civil society. It’s really, really challenging, but it is possible to change the local narrative. I am personally involved in various media projects to do exactly that. Of course, being visible again has its drawbacks, but I’m not above using that visibility to help others. That’s why I enjoy being on the radio, on television, in my own social media productions, and whatever else comes my way. It’s about self-efficacy. I want more people to know that their voice matters, and that they themselves can create positive change. Not just for themselves, but for everyone.

Juliette Holtz: Finally, I would like to thank my interviewees very much for their personal insights. They have shown how diverse and at the same time challenging the change here in Weißwasser is being experienced. Not only as a crisis, but also as an opportunity for new ideas.